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[Music]

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hello and welcome to episode number 52

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of the point of convergence podcast

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as always i am your host exo academian

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as we approach the one year anniversary

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of this podcast now only days away

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it's useful to stop and reflect on the

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sheer wealth of the diverse and

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captivating material we've covered

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during the past 12 months

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over the past 50 plus episodes we've

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pivoted between a micro and a macro view

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of this phenomenon

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discussing the mind-boggling details of

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individual encounters with these beings

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perhaps best described as the others

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while also examining the overarching

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trends and common data points observed

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as we've endeavored to piece together a

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meaningful narrative to help us

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understand at least in part the totality

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of what is going on

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and during these last 12 months while

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we've been busy perusing the so-called

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experiencer literature that has grown

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into an enormous volume of data over the

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decades

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we've seen out of the corner of our eye

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as it were that this topic commonly

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referred to as the ufo phenomenon has

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even begun to finally pierce the veil of

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the mainstream

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indeed in recent weeks we've seen the

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momentum that began in 2017 with a

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remarkable piece in the new york times

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culminate in the passing of

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congressional amendments that are poised

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to create an officially sanctioned

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office to gather process and collate

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information pertaining specifically to

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uap unidentified aerial phenomena aka

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ufos

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but our journey together has been about

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much more than an investigation of the

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strange and sophisticated craft buzzing

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in and around our skies

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we've also traced a point of convergence

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if you will where capacities that exist

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along the so-called psi spectrum seem to

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overlap with the data belonging to ufos

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and aliens

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fascinatingly not only do these others

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these non-human intelligences seem to

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demonstrate a startling capacity for

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abilities such as telepathy

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psychokinesis and clairvoyance

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but so too do human beings suggesting

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perhaps our connection to them is closer

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than many of us have first imagined

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indeed other non-conventional human

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experiences reported across time here we

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speak of events such as out-of-body

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experiences near-death experiences

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subtle state sensing and astral travel

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also seem to meet at a point of

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convergence with data usually squarely

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bookmarked within the ufo phenomenon and

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we've discussed how in total this

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remarkably illuminating point of

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convergence seems to be suggesting

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something fundamental about ultimate

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reality itself

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laying bare the evidently central role

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the capital c consciousness seems to

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play as the bedrock of all that is

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serving as a substrate that not only

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gives rise to secondary phenomena such

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as matter and energy but that seems to

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connect everything and everyone in the

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cosmos which is perhaps best described

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as a multi-dimensional multiverse

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potentially teeming with life

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as we've tracked this trajectory that

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has i'm sure you'll agree

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proven to be at times as equally

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baffling and bewildering as it has been

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bewitching and transfixing

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no doubt questions have arisen in the

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minds of you the audience and that's

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probably true whether you hopped on this

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train at the first stop around this time

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last year or whether you've jumped on

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board on one of our more recent episode

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stops

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either way now seems like an apt time to

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explore some of these questions in the

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second edition of a feature titled the

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inquiring mind where i engage with some

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of the thoughtful and insightful

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questions you the audience have sent in

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over the last couple of months

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and so now without further ado let's

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jump into these thought-provoking

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questions as part of this inquiring mind

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feature

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in this

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the 52nd episode of the point of

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convergence podcast

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[Music]

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all right let's jump right in question

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number one is worded as follows

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congratulations on 50 quite an

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accomplishment all high quality episodes

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too

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bear in mind that the aliens themselves

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have emerged science that deals with all

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phenomena so we know it's possible

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also abductees tell us that the graves

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say we must pay closer attention to our

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spiritual side

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as usual they seem to know a lot more

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than we do during the next year i would

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ask you and other thinkers on this topic

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to consider more closely the role that

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the visitors themselves are playing in

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quote-unquote disclosure

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we talk about the role of governments

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and of ufologists but never of the

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visitors are they in communication with

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governments

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are there agreements that permit

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abduction

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are government efforts to limit

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disclosure mandated by the visitors

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are some of the players actually aliens

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rather than humans

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for instance the mib the men in black

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alright so this is a great question and

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there's a lot to it so let's take it

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piece by piece

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now first of all in terms of the grays

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telling us we should pay closer

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attention to our spiritual side

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yes indeed that's certainly attested to

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in much of the literature again while

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some people have negative experiences

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with the graves there are many many that

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have either positive or neutral

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experiences

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and yes those who have had positive

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experiences often discuss that the greys

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try to point them towards some deeper

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understanding of the meaning of life

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even of a life that stretches over

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multiple lifetimes as we've talked about

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before people like susie hansen have

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discussed in their encounters coming to

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recognize that they actually have a dual

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human and gray identity again this is

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where this information gets really

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complex but really interesting and

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people like susie hansen have pointed

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out that when they're in the presence of

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these others they're reminded that they

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signed up for this that they came into

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this lifetime as a human being to play a

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role to move everything forward to

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mature their own energy as well as to

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work in service towards the evolution of

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the entire planet and all of the

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consciousnesses here now again i'm not

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suggesting that all people have these

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experiences with the graves but many do

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and susie hansen's case is particularly

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interesting and we did discuss this in

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one of our first episodes

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because she has so much recall about

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these encounters with the graves that

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have been happening her entire lifetime

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and as i discussed in that episode even

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goes back before this lifetime for her

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secondly this person asks about the role

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that the visitors or the others may be

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playing in disclosure that we shouldn't

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limit the discussion to just ufologists

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and governments

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i wholeheartedly agree here in fact i

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think that the biggest player in this

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entire question is the visitors now

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what's interesting is recently when i

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spoke with ross coulthart the australian

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investigative journalist who's covered

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the ufo phenomenon in great detail

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he talked about this sense that the

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intelligence behind the phenomenon may

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be pushing the envelope especially of

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late he talked about how strike groups

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out in the oceans are encountering

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sometimes 50 of these vehicles a day 50

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of these uap slash ufos a day and

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furthermore that the types of vehicles

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that are showing up continue to increase

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as well so greater numbers of

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appearances and a greater number of

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different types

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and so there's this sense amongst the

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military brass anyway that the

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phenomenon may be ramping things up with

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the intention that disclosure must

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happen soon because they are the ones

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who are going to be driving this

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narrative

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the concern amongst the secret keepers

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is that the others are going to make

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their presence known in some plain as

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they way and then the secrets will be

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irrelevant because everyone will know

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that we are in contact and communication

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and ongoing interaction with non-human

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intelligences

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now the question goes on to ask is it

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possible that we have agreements or our

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governments have agreements with some of

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these others that permits abduction that

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basically the governments of the world

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will look the other way while these

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others supposedly abduct human beings

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conducting experiments gathering genetic

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material what have you

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and i should add here by the way that

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for the most part this is discussing the

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us government not all governments but

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particularly the u.s government

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and supposedly this happened this

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agreement this treaty that was signed

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under the eisenhower administration now

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i would say take this with a grain of

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salt or two or three because again it's

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hard to get any kind of credible

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confirmation of these details but the

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way the story goes anyway is that a

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treaty was signed that basically stated

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that we would not interfere in their

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affairs and they would not interfere in

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ours

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that basically in exchange for them

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providing us with technology that was

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next-gen technology far beyond what

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humans had at the current moment

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they would be able to

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abduct human beings while the government

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looked the other way

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now the agreement was human beings would

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be put back in their homes or back in

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their cars as has been the case

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according to the literature they would

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not be harmed but that the aliens would

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have free reign to do this as they

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needed as part of their experiments and

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again in exchange the us government

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would receive advanced technology

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now again for the most part this was

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described as a generally friendly

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exchange and there was even kind of an

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arrangement where each side would

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exchange 16 personnel so that each side

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could learn about each other kind of

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like a diplomatic envoy

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now how would we confirm these kind of

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details there have been some who've

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suggested that various technologies such

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as those that allowed for the

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development of the stealth fighter

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basically had their roots in this

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technology that was provided by these

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alien others it's really difficult to

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know either way certainly the stealth

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technology that we now use in our jets

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was next gen especially when you think

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about when it was first being used back

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in the 70s and 80s but it's hard to say

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that that technology didn't arise

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naturally

284
00:10:49,750 --> 00:10:46,959
in fact in terms of each of the

285
00:10:52,790 --> 00:10:49,760
technologies supposedly ascribed to

286
00:10:54,630 --> 00:10:52,800
these others one could argue that the

287
00:10:56,710 --> 00:10:54,640
seeds of these different technologies

288
00:10:59,190 --> 00:10:56,720
already existed amongst humankind and

289
00:11:01,430 --> 00:10:59,200
therefore it's difficult to say for sure

290
00:11:03,590 --> 00:11:01,440
that such technologies must have come

291
00:11:04,870 --> 00:11:03,600
from an alien species and alien

292
00:11:06,710 --> 00:11:04,880
intelligence

293
00:11:09,030 --> 00:11:06,720
again i've heard arguments on both sides

294
00:11:11,350 --> 00:11:09,040
of this equation i'm not convinced

295
00:11:12,790 --> 00:11:11,360
either way i think it's possible that

296
00:11:15,110 --> 00:11:12,800
there was some sort of agreement and

297
00:11:16,790 --> 00:11:15,120
that there was an exchange of technology

298
00:11:18,949 --> 00:11:16,800
but again it's hard to say with

299
00:11:20,949 --> 00:11:18,959
certainty either way

300
00:11:23,430 --> 00:11:20,959
now in regards to the aspect where the

301
00:11:26,150 --> 00:11:23,440
government in exchange agreed that these

302
00:11:27,509 --> 00:11:26,160
others could abduct people abduct

303
00:11:29,750 --> 00:11:27,519
citizens

304
00:11:31,910 --> 00:11:29,760
that's a little difficult to swallow for

305
00:11:34,230 --> 00:11:31,920
me because the truth is

306
00:11:35,750 --> 00:11:34,240
what other option do we have

307
00:11:37,990 --> 00:11:35,760
are we really in a position where we

308
00:11:40,310 --> 00:11:38,000
could stop them or even put up a fight

309
00:11:42,630 --> 00:11:40,320
if they wanted to abduct citizens

310
00:11:44,389 --> 00:11:42,640
i'm not convinced we could when you

311
00:11:47,110 --> 00:11:44,399
think about the degree of consciousness

312
00:11:49,590 --> 00:11:47,120
and perception control that these others

313
00:11:51,829 --> 00:11:49,600
wield over human beings it's not clear

314
00:11:53,910 --> 00:11:51,839
at all that we could do anything about

315
00:11:55,670 --> 00:11:53,920
it even if we wanted to

316
00:11:57,430 --> 00:11:55,680
i think what's more likely is that the

317
00:11:59,030 --> 00:11:57,440
government knows it's going on at least

318
00:12:01,110 --> 00:11:59,040
some elements of the government know

319
00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:01,120
that abductions are going on

320
00:12:05,110 --> 00:12:03,040
but the truth is because they know they

321
00:12:07,110 --> 00:12:05,120
can't do anything about it they just

322
00:12:09,350 --> 00:12:07,120
don't talk about it not because there's

323
00:12:12,470 --> 00:12:09,360
some secret agreement but because they

324
00:12:15,030 --> 00:12:12,480
don't want to seem so impotent in front

325
00:12:16,790 --> 00:12:15,040
of the public were this to come out

326
00:12:18,790 --> 00:12:16,800
because again even if they wanted to

327
00:12:21,269 --> 00:12:18,800
there's perhaps nothing they can do to

328
00:12:22,550 --> 00:12:21,279
stop this and if people knew about it

329
00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:22,560
and they knew that the government

330
00:12:27,990 --> 00:12:24,800
couldn't prevent it basically that could

331
00:12:30,550 --> 00:12:28,000
very likely produce a mass panic

332
00:12:33,430 --> 00:12:30,560
so all that is to say do the others play

333
00:12:35,269 --> 00:12:33,440
a major role in disclosure absolutely i

334
00:12:37,430 --> 00:12:35,279
agree they do in fact i think they play

335
00:12:38,949 --> 00:12:37,440
the chief role and in fact evidence

336
00:12:41,190 --> 00:12:38,959
suggests they may be pushing the

337
00:12:43,190 --> 00:12:41,200
envelope even as we speak

338
00:12:45,190 --> 00:12:43,200
but in terms of some historic agreement

339
00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:45,200
between a government or several

340
00:12:49,350 --> 00:12:47,360
governments and these others

341
00:12:51,590 --> 00:12:49,360
while i think it's possible i don't

342
00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:51,600
think it's likely that those agreements

343
00:12:56,710 --> 00:12:54,160
have driven the course of history over

344
00:12:58,629 --> 00:12:56,720
the last several decades as some people

345
00:13:01,269 --> 00:12:58,639
seem to suggest

346
00:13:03,829 --> 00:13:01,279
all right time for question number two

347
00:13:06,150 --> 00:13:03,839
which is worded as follows

348
00:13:08,790 --> 00:13:06,160
i recently saw a segment on skinwalker

349
00:13:11,430 --> 00:13:08,800
ranch and i was thinking that any highly

350
00:13:14,069 --> 00:13:11,440
advanced civilization would be aware of

351
00:13:16,870 --> 00:13:14,079
a crew of humans trying to research them

352
00:13:18,790 --> 00:13:16,880
and their actions and what they're up to

353
00:13:21,030 --> 00:13:18,800
assuming that a civilization far

354
00:13:22,949 --> 00:13:21,040
advanced beyond ours would be able to

355
00:13:25,750 --> 00:13:22,959
thwart our attempts at investigating

356
00:13:27,430 --> 00:13:25,760
their activity on our planet isn't it

357
00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:27,440
reasonable to assume that they would

358
00:13:31,590 --> 00:13:29,760
purposefully make it difficult for us to

359
00:13:32,710 --> 00:13:31,600
collect reliable data about their

360
00:13:35,509 --> 00:13:32,720
activity

361
00:13:37,350 --> 00:13:35,519
as seen at places like skinwalker ranch

362
00:13:39,509 --> 00:13:37,360
they seem to be throwing a wrench in the

363
00:13:41,509 --> 00:13:39,519
gears of our research and possibly

364
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:41,519
intentionally projecting false

365
00:13:45,990 --> 00:13:44,000
information and fake phenomena to

366
00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:46,000
intermingle it all so that it's

367
00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:48,480
impossible to discern which activity is

368
00:13:52,389 --> 00:13:50,240
truly theirs

369
00:13:54,710 --> 00:13:52,399
so that's a great and insightful

370
00:13:57,030 --> 00:13:54,720
question and my short answer is it's

371
00:13:59,269 --> 00:13:57,040
certainly a possibility that's one way

372
00:14:01,910 --> 00:13:59,279
you could make sense of the data that

373
00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:01,920
perhaps there's some vast sophisticated

374
00:14:06,949 --> 00:14:05,120
intelligence that has at its disposal

375
00:14:10,150 --> 00:14:06,959
these various phenomena that it can

376
00:14:12,230 --> 00:14:10,160
basically manifest which confuses us

377
00:14:14,949 --> 00:14:12,240
making us think perhaps there's many

378
00:14:17,350 --> 00:14:14,959
different intelligences or entities

379
00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:17,360
present on the ranch and effectively

380
00:14:22,310 --> 00:14:19,680
scuttle our ability to be able to draw

381
00:14:24,550 --> 00:14:22,320
conclusions or make any headway in our

382
00:14:26,790 --> 00:14:24,560
research perhaps even to the point where

383
00:14:29,509 --> 00:14:26,800
we become so frustrated that we give up

384
00:14:31,189 --> 00:14:29,519
or run out of money in the meantime

385
00:14:33,509 --> 00:14:31,199
and just to be clear here we're talking

386
00:14:35,350 --> 00:14:33,519
about sophisticated scientific

387
00:14:38,550 --> 00:14:35,360
expeditions that were present on the

388
00:14:40,949 --> 00:14:38,560
ranch trying to gather data hard data

389
00:14:43,110 --> 00:14:40,959
with sensor systems and whatnot to draw

390
00:14:45,189 --> 00:14:43,120
conclusions about what's going on there

391
00:14:47,189 --> 00:14:45,199
and also to be able to convince others

392
00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:47,199
who are more skeptical that something

393
00:14:52,069 --> 00:14:49,760
anomalous really is going on this

394
00:14:54,710 --> 00:14:52,079
happened of course under robert bigelow

395
00:14:57,750 --> 00:14:54,720
and this happened more recently with the

396
00:14:59,910 --> 00:14:57,760
group being funded by brandon fugle

397
00:15:01,430 --> 00:14:59,920
now speaking of these various teams we

398
00:15:03,590 --> 00:15:01,440
should remember that a big part of

399
00:15:06,310 --> 00:15:03,600
bigelow's work was funded by the

400
00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:06,320
government under the ossap program which

401
00:15:12,710 --> 00:15:08,800
had a broad purview not just to study

402
00:15:14,949 --> 00:15:12,720
ufos but also other co-arising anomalous

403
00:15:17,269 --> 00:15:14,959
phenomena which of course is central to

404
00:15:19,269 --> 00:15:17,279
this show and essential to this show

405
00:15:21,110 --> 00:15:19,279
because that's central to reality we

406
00:15:22,949 --> 00:15:21,120
find these colorizing phenomena

407
00:15:24,949 --> 00:15:22,959
happening all the time

408
00:15:26,870 --> 00:15:24,959
so that gives you a bit of background on

409
00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:26,880
this question what's been happening at

410
00:15:32,069 --> 00:15:29,680
skinwalker ranch and what this person is

411
00:15:34,389 --> 00:15:32,079
suggesting is perhaps this is all

412
00:15:37,749 --> 00:15:34,399
basically a counterintelligence

413
00:15:40,150 --> 00:15:37,759
psyop conducted by this sophisticated

414
00:15:41,509 --> 00:15:40,160
intelligence to throw us off their scent

415
00:15:43,990 --> 00:15:41,519
basically

416
00:15:45,509 --> 00:15:44,000
again it's certainly a possibility

417
00:15:47,350 --> 00:15:45,519
however we should also remember that

418
00:15:49,509 --> 00:15:47,360
skinwalker ranch is not the only place

419
00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:49,519
in the world that has these kinds of

420
00:15:55,269 --> 00:15:52,000
co-arising phenomena there are other

421
00:15:57,350 --> 00:15:55,279
places too where seemingly a variety of

422
00:15:59,189 --> 00:15:57,360
different phenomena manifest we're

423
00:16:01,910 --> 00:15:59,199
talking about everything from

424
00:16:04,550 --> 00:16:01,920
seven foot tall wolf creatures

425
00:16:09,189 --> 00:16:04,560
that seem to walk on two legs

426
00:16:11,110 --> 00:16:09,199
to sasquatch to ufos to shadow people to

427
00:16:13,030 --> 00:16:11,120
mysterious human figures that turn out

428
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:13,040
to not be human or disappear into the

429
00:16:18,230 --> 00:16:16,399
mist never to be found again etc now of

430
00:16:21,030 --> 00:16:18,240
course one possibility that's been put

431
00:16:23,350 --> 00:16:21,040
forth to explain this vast array of

432
00:16:25,749 --> 00:16:23,360
phenomena is that perhaps there's a

433
00:16:27,670 --> 00:16:25,759
wormhole present on the ranch not

434
00:16:29,829 --> 00:16:27,680
specifically on the ground but perhaps

435
00:16:31,990 --> 00:16:29,839
well up in the air or perhaps below the

436
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:32,000
surface of the ground in the general

437
00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:33,920
proximity of the ranch

438
00:16:38,790 --> 00:16:36,240
in fact in more recent research that's

439
00:16:40,310 --> 00:16:38,800
been done by fugle's team

440
00:16:42,230 --> 00:16:40,320
it has been suggested that there's a

441
00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:42,240
kind of triangulation

442
00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:44,720
of magnetic anomalies that suggest there

443
00:16:49,910 --> 00:16:47,040
could be some sort of massive magnetic

444
00:16:52,150 --> 00:16:49,920
anomaly perhaps a wormhole situated

445
00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:52,160
either high above the property or deep

446
00:16:56,310 --> 00:16:54,720
below the property so that would suggest

447
00:17:00,069 --> 00:16:56,320
therefore that this is not one

448
00:17:03,110 --> 00:17:00,079
intelligence confounding our efforts by

449
00:17:05,590 --> 00:17:03,120
manifesting disorientingly nonsensical

450
00:17:07,750 --> 00:17:05,600
phenomena but rather that there are just

451
00:17:10,710 --> 00:17:07,760
many different entities that are able to

452
00:17:12,710 --> 00:17:10,720
pour into our reality because of the

453
00:17:15,270 --> 00:17:12,720
presence of this wormhole

454
00:17:17,510 --> 00:17:15,280
to me that seems like the more likely

455
00:17:20,069 --> 00:17:17,520
answer to this puzzle but i admit that

456
00:17:21,909 --> 00:17:20,079
the other one is still a possibility the

457
00:17:23,909 --> 00:17:21,919
fact that we also see creatures that

458
00:17:26,309 --> 00:17:23,919
seem to be not only out of place but

459
00:17:27,990 --> 00:17:26,319
outside of time for instance creatures

460
00:17:30,070 --> 00:17:28,000
that seem to be better described as

461
00:17:32,230 --> 00:17:30,080
coming from the jurassic era also

462
00:17:34,150 --> 00:17:32,240
showing up on the property suggests

463
00:17:37,270 --> 00:17:34,160
again that some sort of distortion of

464
00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:37,280
the space-time continuum is going on at

465
00:17:41,750 --> 00:17:39,360
the ranch or very close to the ranch

466
00:17:44,150 --> 00:17:41,760
either high above or deep below and that

467
00:17:46,950 --> 00:17:44,160
this allows for various phenomena

468
00:17:49,990 --> 00:17:46,960
outside our conventional time and space

469
00:17:52,390 --> 00:17:50,000
to pour in to our reality again that's

470
00:17:54,710 --> 00:17:52,400
my working hypothesis to explain places

471
00:17:56,150 --> 00:17:54,720
like skinwalker ranch but i admit that

472
00:17:57,750 --> 00:17:56,160
the possibility of this

473
00:18:00,230 --> 00:17:57,760
hyperintelligence running a

474
00:18:01,669 --> 00:18:00,240
disinformation campaign is also a

475
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:01,679
possibility

476
00:18:06,710 --> 00:18:03,840
and let me just quickly say also that

477
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:06,720
this co-arising of anomalous phenomena

478
00:18:11,669 --> 00:18:09,120
is perhaps the most astounding

479
00:18:13,510 --> 00:18:11,679
fascinating and bewildering aspect of

480
00:18:15,669 --> 00:18:13,520
this entire phenomenon

481
00:18:18,710 --> 00:18:15,679
and speaking of that i will address one

482
00:18:21,029 --> 00:18:18,720
particularly bizarre historical event

483
00:18:23,590 --> 00:18:21,039
where we saw this take place later in

484
00:18:25,830 --> 00:18:23,600
this podcast episode

485
00:18:28,549 --> 00:18:25,840
okay time for the next question which is

486
00:18:31,029 --> 00:18:28,559
worded as follows greetings from

487
00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:31,039
arkansas i enjoy the content of your

488
00:18:35,590 --> 00:18:33,280
podcast i have a question pertaining to

489
00:18:38,549 --> 00:18:35,600
something related to the phenomenon but

490
00:18:40,630 --> 00:18:38,559
geared more specifically to humans

491
00:18:42,789 --> 00:18:40,640
why is it in your opinion that so many

492
00:18:45,909 --> 00:18:42,799
people begin to forget their experiences

493
00:18:48,390 --> 00:18:45,919
with the uap phenomenon mere days after

494
00:18:49,430 --> 00:18:48,400
the interaction while others remember it

495
00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:49,440
clearly

496
00:18:54,070 --> 00:18:51,600
do you believe this is an intentionally

497
00:18:56,230 --> 00:18:54,080
directed psychological trick or an

498
00:18:58,950 --> 00:18:56,240
unintended reaction to time and

499
00:19:01,590 --> 00:18:58,960
dimensional disruptions

500
00:19:03,029 --> 00:19:01,600
great question and even in the

501
00:19:04,870 --> 00:19:03,039
body of the question there you can see

502
00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:04,880
that this person has already considered

503
00:19:08,789 --> 00:19:06,480
some possibilities

504
00:19:10,789 --> 00:19:08,799
dimensional disruptions being that

505
00:19:13,750 --> 00:19:10,799
because this happens outside of our

506
00:19:15,990 --> 00:19:13,760
normal flow of time and space it quickly

507
00:19:18,310 --> 00:19:16,000
loses its ability to be grounded into

508
00:19:20,310 --> 00:19:18,320
our reality after the fact

509
00:19:21,750 --> 00:19:20,320
that's a possibility

510
00:19:22,950 --> 00:19:21,760
some other possibilities we should

511
00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:22,960
consider

512
00:19:27,110 --> 00:19:24,960
one is genetic and physiological

513
00:19:29,110 --> 00:19:27,120
differences between people

514
00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:29,120
we know that researchers such as gary

515
00:19:34,950 --> 00:19:32,160
nolan have been studying actual physical

516
00:19:37,430 --> 00:19:34,960
differences in the brains of some people

517
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:37,440
that allow them to seemingly perceive

518
00:19:42,230 --> 00:19:40,480
anomalous events more so than others

519
00:19:44,150 --> 00:19:42,240
so it may be that some people just have

520
00:19:46,710 --> 00:19:44,160
physiological differences that allow

521
00:19:49,669 --> 00:19:46,720
them to ground or experience these

522
00:19:51,909 --> 00:19:49,679
events more so than others

523
00:19:54,789 --> 00:19:51,919
another major factor from my point of

524
00:19:56,470 --> 00:19:54,799
view is contextual hooks in other words

525
00:19:58,470 --> 00:19:56,480
if you're never taught about this you've

526
00:20:01,590 --> 00:19:58,480
never heard about such things

527
00:20:03,430 --> 00:20:01,600
when you have these anomalous encounters

528
00:20:05,350 --> 00:20:03,440
it kind of gets stored away in some part

529
00:20:07,669 --> 00:20:05,360
of your brain where you can't really

530
00:20:09,430 --> 00:20:07,679
think about it or form long-term

531
00:20:11,669 --> 00:20:09,440
memories about it in some ways because

532
00:20:13,190 --> 00:20:11,679
it's so anomalous so it has nowhere to

533
00:20:15,830 --> 00:20:13,200
land so to speak

534
00:20:17,669 --> 00:20:15,840
no hook to be put on and grounded into

535
00:20:18,950 --> 00:20:17,679
your experience and your long-term

536
00:20:20,950 --> 00:20:18,960
memory

537
00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:20,960
this is especially the case when people

538
00:20:24,710 --> 00:20:22,480
aren't able to talk about such

539
00:20:26,549 --> 00:20:24,720
experiences with other people because

540
00:20:28,549 --> 00:20:26,559
that kind of social interaction that

541
00:20:31,110 --> 00:20:28,559
kind of sound boarding that other people

542
00:20:33,750 --> 00:20:31,120
offer us is a key part of the process to

543
00:20:35,590 --> 00:20:33,760
ground this into our memory

544
00:20:36,789 --> 00:20:35,600
this person also mentioned the

545
00:20:38,390 --> 00:20:36,799
possibility of this being a

546
00:20:40,310 --> 00:20:38,400
psychological trick

547
00:20:43,029 --> 00:20:40,320
perhaps that's definitely on the table

548
00:20:45,590 --> 00:20:43,039
as well and that could be two malevolent

549
00:20:48,390 --> 00:20:45,600
ends but i would also point out that

550
00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:48,400
this could also be a mercy because the

551
00:20:52,630 --> 00:20:50,400
conscious memory may be too much for

552
00:20:55,909 --> 00:20:52,640
some people and that's why the memory is

553
00:20:57,750 --> 00:20:55,919
wiped or covered over in some way

554
00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:57,760
we know that numerous experiencers have

555
00:21:02,310 --> 00:20:59,200
claimed that they have been allowed to

556
00:21:04,630 --> 00:21:02,320
remember more later on when they ask to

557
00:21:06,310 --> 00:21:04,640
remember more once these others are

558
00:21:09,750 --> 00:21:06,320
confident that these people will not

559
00:21:11,350 --> 00:21:09,760
respond like frantic spooked animals you

560
00:21:13,510 --> 00:21:11,360
could think about this like an animal

561
00:21:15,590 --> 00:21:13,520
that begins to trust human beings that

562
00:21:16,630 --> 00:21:15,600
are perhaps treating it in the wild and

563
00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:16,640
it gets to the point where they no

564
00:21:21,029 --> 00:21:19,600
longer have to tranquilize that animal

565
00:21:22,390 --> 00:21:21,039
i understand that's somewhat of a crude

566
00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:22,400
analogy and some people aren't

567
00:21:27,510 --> 00:21:24,480
comfortable with it but i'm just saying

568
00:21:28,870 --> 00:21:27,520
that's what some experiencers describe

569
00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:28,880
that as they develop more of a

570
00:21:33,909 --> 00:21:31,679
relational dynamic with these others

571
00:21:36,549 --> 00:21:33,919
they are permitted to remember more and

572
00:21:39,110 --> 00:21:36,559
they're told that this memory wipe this

573
00:21:40,390 --> 00:21:39,120
memory screening is done as a mercy for

574
00:21:41,830 --> 00:21:40,400
these people

575
00:21:44,310 --> 00:21:41,840
but i also think it's important to

576
00:21:46,310 --> 00:21:44,320
remember that this goes well beyond just

577
00:21:47,909 --> 00:21:46,320
whether or not people remember something

578
00:21:50,470 --> 00:21:47,919
that's anomalous

579
00:21:52,070 --> 00:21:50,480
we need to remember that these others

580
00:21:53,909 --> 00:21:52,080
some of them anyway because again

581
00:21:55,669 --> 00:21:53,919
there's probably numerous groups we're

582
00:21:58,390 --> 00:21:55,679
interacting with and we shouldn't make

583
00:22:00,470 --> 00:21:58,400
the mistake of conflating them all but

584
00:22:03,350 --> 00:22:00,480
some of them seem to have masterful

585
00:22:05,110 --> 00:22:03,360
control over our perceptions and even

586
00:22:07,190 --> 00:22:05,120
over our memories

587
00:22:09,110 --> 00:22:07,200
so there's two ways you could look at it

588
00:22:11,430 --> 00:22:09,120
either that some are remembering while

589
00:22:14,070 --> 00:22:11,440
others are forgetting or that some

590
00:22:16,470 --> 00:22:14,080
recall correctly that a certain event

591
00:22:18,870 --> 00:22:16,480
never happened while others falsely

592
00:22:21,270 --> 00:22:18,880
recall a non-event that was actually an

593
00:22:23,750 --> 00:22:21,280
implanted false memory

594
00:22:25,990 --> 00:22:23,760
that's possible what seems more likely

595
00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:26,000
however is that when a false memory is

596
00:22:30,710 --> 00:22:28,640
implanted it is to cover over something

597
00:22:32,710 --> 00:22:30,720
else that really did happen

598
00:22:35,510 --> 00:22:32,720
as in what we have often heard referred

599
00:22:38,470 --> 00:22:35,520
to as screen memories for instance when

600
00:22:41,909 --> 00:22:38,480
people remember seeing owls or deer or

601
00:22:44,230 --> 00:22:41,919
workmen on the road and only later under

602
00:22:46,390 --> 00:22:44,240
hypnotic regression for instance they

603
00:22:47,830 --> 00:22:46,400
gained additional clarity and they then

604
00:22:50,470 --> 00:22:47,840
realized that what was actually

605
00:22:52,950 --> 00:22:50,480
encountered was for instance a group of

606
00:22:55,190 --> 00:22:52,960
grey aliens

607
00:22:57,190 --> 00:22:55,200
okay on to our next question which is

608
00:22:59,270 --> 00:22:57,200
worded as follows

609
00:23:01,430 --> 00:22:59,280
can you elaborate on what materialist

610
00:23:03,590 --> 00:23:01,440
and reductionistic mean in the context

611
00:23:06,470 --> 00:23:03,600
of limitations of science

612
00:23:09,430 --> 00:23:06,480
are quantum particles material are the

613
00:23:11,190 --> 00:23:09,440
four fundamental forces material is

614
00:23:13,909 --> 00:23:11,200
explaining nature as quantum

615
00:23:16,149 --> 00:23:13,919
interactions reductionistic

616
00:23:18,390 --> 00:23:16,159
okay great question and yes you are

617
00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:18,400
right that i often say that that

618
00:23:23,350 --> 00:23:20,480
part of the problem with reductionistic

619
00:23:25,350 --> 00:23:23,360
materialistic science is that it would

620
00:23:27,190 --> 00:23:25,360
not allow for these kinds of

621
00:23:29,990 --> 00:23:27,200
interactions because they don't fit with

622
00:23:31,590 --> 00:23:30,000
a prevailing paradigm but what do i mean

623
00:23:34,870 --> 00:23:31,600
when i say materialist and

624
00:23:36,630 --> 00:23:34,880
reductionistic really this comes down to

625
00:23:38,870 --> 00:23:36,640
the tendency for

626
00:23:41,029 --> 00:23:38,880
scientific materialists to reduce

627
00:23:42,310 --> 00:23:41,039
everything to what ken wilbur has called

628
00:23:43,110 --> 00:23:42,320
flat land

629
00:23:45,190 --> 00:23:43,120
where

630
00:23:47,590 --> 00:23:45,200
while we have depth and breadth to

631
00:23:49,590 --> 00:23:47,600
reality and to human experience

632
00:23:51,990 --> 00:23:49,600
what science does is reduces it

633
00:23:54,230 --> 00:23:52,000
collapses it into a single

634
00:23:55,110 --> 00:23:54,240
one-dimensional surface that you can

635
00:23:57,430 --> 00:23:55,120
measure

636
00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:57,440
and it then goes one step further and

637
00:24:01,990 --> 00:23:59,760
says that all that really counts all

638
00:24:04,710 --> 00:24:02,000
that's really real is what you can

639
00:24:06,630 --> 00:24:04,720
measure at that collapsed surface level

640
00:24:09,430 --> 00:24:06,640
that's why it's reductionistic because

641
00:24:11,669 --> 00:24:09,440
it takes a multi-dimensional plurality

642
00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:11,679
and reduces it to something that's

643
00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:14,080
measurable and then on top of that

644
00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:15,760
assumes that only that which is

645
00:24:20,149 --> 00:24:18,400
measurable is actually real

646
00:24:22,630 --> 00:24:20,159
to make this point further i'd like to

647
00:24:25,669 --> 00:24:22,640
offer a few quotes and to be clear this

648
00:24:28,390 --> 00:24:25,679
reductionism happens all over the place

649
00:24:31,110 --> 00:24:28,400
it is rampant throughout the sciences

650
00:24:33,110 --> 00:24:31,120
for instance thomas nagle says quote

651
00:24:36,149 --> 00:24:33,120
physical chemical reductionism in

652
00:24:38,630 --> 00:24:36,159
biology is the orthodox view and any

653
00:24:41,669 --> 00:24:38,640
resistance to it is regarded as not only

654
00:24:43,669 --> 00:24:41,679
scientifically but politically incorrect

655
00:24:45,830 --> 00:24:43,679
but for a long time i have found the

656
00:24:48,149 --> 00:24:45,840
materialist account of how we and our

657
00:24:49,510 --> 00:24:48,159
fellow organisms came to exist

658
00:24:51,190 --> 00:24:49,520
hard to believe

659
00:24:53,590 --> 00:24:51,200
including the standard version of how

660
00:24:55,269 --> 00:24:53,600
the evolutionary process works

661
00:24:57,750 --> 00:24:55,279
the more details we learn about the

662
00:24:59,669 --> 00:24:57,760
chemical basis of life and the intricacy

663
00:25:01,669 --> 00:24:59,679
of the genetic code the more

664
00:25:04,470 --> 00:25:01,679
unbelievable the standard historical

665
00:25:06,630 --> 00:25:04,480
account becomes unquote

666
00:25:08,630 --> 00:25:06,640
terence mckenna said quote the

667
00:25:10,870 --> 00:25:08,640
intellectual tension that seems to work

668
00:25:13,350 --> 00:25:10,880
its way through this society almost like

669
00:25:15,990 --> 00:25:13,360
fat through meat is the tension between

670
00:25:18,710 --> 00:25:16,000
scientific reductionism and the deeply

671
00:25:20,710 --> 00:25:18,720
felt intuition of most people that there

672
00:25:23,909 --> 00:25:20,720
is a spiritual dimension or a hidden

673
00:25:26,870 --> 00:25:23,919
dimension or a transcendental dimension

674
00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:26,880
unquote and to be clear those aspects

675
00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:28,400
those hidden dimensions those

676
00:25:32,870 --> 00:25:30,640
transcendental dimensions even those

677
00:25:35,350 --> 00:25:32,880
spiritual dimensions are front and

678
00:25:37,029 --> 00:25:35,360
center with the ufo phenomenon and

679
00:25:39,830 --> 00:25:37,039
that's partly why so much of the

680
00:25:42,230 --> 00:25:39,840
experience or testimony specifically is

681
00:25:43,590 --> 00:25:42,240
completely dismissed by many many

682
00:25:45,990 --> 00:25:43,600
scientists

683
00:25:47,830 --> 00:25:46,000
making this point further t colin

684
00:25:50,390 --> 00:25:47,840
campbell said quote

685
00:25:52,630 --> 00:25:50,400
there's another pitfall of reductionism

686
00:25:55,350 --> 00:25:52,640
until scientists have the means to

687
00:25:58,310 --> 00:25:55,360
isolate and measure things they insist

688
00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:58,320
those things don't and can't exist and

689
00:26:03,750 --> 00:26:01,200
anyone who says otherwise is ignorant

690
00:26:05,269 --> 00:26:03,760
and superstitious unquote

691
00:26:07,990 --> 00:26:05,279
so again that's a big part of the

692
00:26:10,149 --> 00:26:08,000
problem that the assumption is not only

693
00:26:12,230 --> 00:26:10,159
that it can't be measured but because it

694
00:26:14,310 --> 00:26:12,240
can't be measured it can't be real it

695
00:26:17,350 --> 00:26:14,320
can't exist it must be some sort of

696
00:26:19,190 --> 00:26:17,360
psychological fancy or delusion

697
00:26:21,029 --> 00:26:19,200
finally i would like to add that part of

698
00:26:23,590 --> 00:26:21,039
the reason why i think there is so much

699
00:26:26,230 --> 00:26:23,600
resistance to these notions within the

700
00:26:29,190 --> 00:26:26,240
scientific establishment is because the

701
00:26:31,909 --> 00:26:29,200
implications of this phenomenon go so

702
00:26:34,230 --> 00:26:31,919
deep they really do call into question

703
00:26:37,110 --> 00:26:34,240
assumptions that are basically dogmatic

704
00:26:39,190 --> 00:26:37,120
assumptions held by most scientists and

705
00:26:41,909 --> 00:26:39,200
that's why to a large degree many of

706
00:26:44,470 --> 00:26:41,919
them will fight to the death to resist

707
00:26:46,950 --> 00:26:44,480
these kinds of notions these kinds of

708
00:26:49,830 --> 00:26:46,960
possibilities because it turns on its

709
00:26:53,029 --> 00:26:49,840
head their entire way of thinking

710
00:26:55,990 --> 00:26:53,039
viewing perceiving and making sense of

711
00:26:57,590 --> 00:26:56,000
the quote unquote real world

712
00:26:59,990 --> 00:26:57,600
all right we have time for one

713
00:27:02,230 --> 00:27:00,000
additional question in this round of the

714
00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:02,240
inquiring mind don't forget we'll do it

715
00:27:06,149 --> 00:27:04,240
again in about 10 episodes so if you

716
00:27:07,350 --> 00:27:06,159
have questions send them in i will try

717
00:27:09,750 --> 00:27:07,360
to get to them

718
00:27:11,029 --> 00:27:09,760
the question we end with is stated as

719
00:27:13,029 --> 00:27:11,039
follows

720
00:27:15,029 --> 00:27:13,039
i always appreciate how you seem to have

721
00:27:18,230 --> 00:27:15,039
your finger on the pulse of what's going

722
00:27:20,549 --> 00:27:18,240
on as much as anyone can anyway because

723
00:27:23,669 --> 00:27:20,559
as you say clarity is elusive when it

724
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:23,679
comes to this ufo phenomenon topic

725
00:27:28,789 --> 00:27:26,159
but that said i'm curious as to what has

726
00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:28,799
really peaked your interest of late

727
00:27:32,830 --> 00:27:30,880
what element of the phenomenon has

728
00:27:34,470 --> 00:27:32,840
lately made your jaw

729
00:27:36,630 --> 00:27:34,480
drop

730
00:27:38,870 --> 00:27:36,640
interesting question and let me first

731
00:27:41,029 --> 00:27:38,880
say i'm frequently surprised by what i

732
00:27:42,870 --> 00:27:41,039
discover that even though i've been

733
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:42,880
familiar with this literature for a long

734
00:27:47,430 --> 00:27:45,360
time while i've been familiar with the

735
00:27:50,230 --> 00:27:47,440
crossover between for instance the size

736
00:27:52,630 --> 00:27:50,240
spectrum or phenomena such as near-death

737
00:27:55,590 --> 00:27:52,640
experiences and out-of-body experiences

738
00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:55,600
and ufos and aliens i still do come

739
00:28:00,070 --> 00:27:57,840
across elements of the data that do

740
00:28:01,350 --> 00:28:00,080
surprise me that make me step back and

741
00:28:03,110 --> 00:28:01,360
really again

742
00:28:05,430 --> 00:28:03,120
wonder about the big picture wonder

743
00:28:07,350 --> 00:28:05,440
about what's going on and wonder what

744
00:28:10,070 --> 00:28:07,360
these revelations tell us about the

745
00:28:11,590 --> 00:28:10,080
nature of ultimate reality

746
00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:11,600
let me share one that i came across

747
00:28:15,269 --> 00:28:13,840
recently that again really did make my

748
00:28:17,590 --> 00:28:15,279
jaw drop

749
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:17,600
i was reading about uri geller now as

750
00:28:22,710 --> 00:28:19,440
many of you probably already know uri

751
00:28:25,990 --> 00:28:22,720
geller is well known for his psi

752
00:28:28,149 --> 00:28:26,000
abilities he can manifest along the side

753
00:28:30,950 --> 00:28:28,159
spectrum to an astounding degree he's

754
00:28:33,190 --> 00:28:30,960
one of the most telekinetic telepathic

755
00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:33,200
people in the history of the world

756
00:28:37,750 --> 00:28:35,760
you may have seen him spoon bending or

757
00:28:39,669 --> 00:28:37,760
moving soccer balls with his mind with

758
00:28:41,190 --> 00:28:39,679
the help of others when it's clear he's

759
00:28:43,029 --> 00:28:41,200
not getting anywhere close to the table

760
00:28:44,870 --> 00:28:43,039
where a soccer ball is sitting

761
00:28:47,669 --> 00:28:44,880
he's famous for those kinds of

762
00:28:50,549 --> 00:28:47,679
demonstrations but it's not just on tv

763
00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:50,559
shows or call-in shows or podcasts that

764
00:28:55,669 --> 00:28:53,200
uri geller demonstrates these abilities

765
00:28:58,389 --> 00:28:55,679
he's also been studied in scientific

766
00:29:00,070 --> 00:28:58,399
circles and in governmental circles that

767
00:29:02,549 --> 00:29:00,080
are trying to get to the heart of what

768
00:29:05,110 --> 00:29:02,559
goes on here how is it that people seem

769
00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:05,120
to have these psi abilities and again

770
00:29:09,590 --> 00:29:07,120
uri geller is recognized even within

771
00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:09,600
governmental circles as one of the most

772
00:29:13,430 --> 00:29:12,000
psy capable people in the history of the

773
00:29:15,029 --> 00:29:13,440
world

774
00:29:17,190 --> 00:29:15,039
now in this one particular case i'm

775
00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:17,200
thinking about what happened was a

776
00:29:22,389 --> 00:29:19,840
regular was tasked with trying to

777
00:29:24,950 --> 00:29:22,399
interfere with or manipulate

778
00:29:26,710 --> 00:29:24,960
a laser that was being fired at a target

779
00:29:28,789 --> 00:29:26,720
that was the first of two experiments

780
00:29:31,269 --> 00:29:28,799
actually that were conducted with uri

781
00:29:33,590 --> 00:29:31,279
geller in the second test these

782
00:29:36,630 --> 00:29:33,600
scientists placed magnetic computer

783
00:29:39,350 --> 00:29:36,640
cards inside a lead container that was

784
00:29:41,750 --> 00:29:39,360
completely sealed off the question was

785
00:29:43,190 --> 00:29:41,760
could uri geller interfere with those

786
00:29:45,590 --> 00:29:43,200
cards

787
00:29:48,070 --> 00:29:45,600
now what they found was yes indeed uri

788
00:29:49,669 --> 00:29:48,080
geller was successful in both cases in

789
00:29:51,990 --> 00:29:49,679
both experiments

790
00:29:54,549 --> 00:29:52,000
but that's the less interesting aspect

791
00:29:55,830 --> 00:29:54,559
of this particular account partly

792
00:29:58,389 --> 00:29:55,840
because i already knew about uri

793
00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:58,399
geller's success in these psi areas

794
00:30:02,070 --> 00:29:59,840
again it's remarkable but i've heard

795
00:30:04,630 --> 00:30:02,080
about that many times before

796
00:30:07,590 --> 00:30:04,640
what was interesting was that

797
00:30:09,990 --> 00:30:07,600
to document this experiment

798
00:30:13,269 --> 00:30:10,000
these nuclear physicists were brought in

799
00:30:15,350 --> 00:30:13,279
to actually make notice of what happened

800
00:30:17,430 --> 00:30:15,360
perhaps try and come up with

801
00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:17,440
explanations for how irregular was doing

802
00:30:21,909 --> 00:30:19,200
it but mainly they were there to

803
00:30:24,789 --> 00:30:21,919
document scientifically what went on and

804
00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:24,799
to ensure there was no trickery involved

805
00:30:30,310 --> 00:30:28,080
so again the experiments ran uri geller

806
00:30:32,389 --> 00:30:30,320
showed his capacity in this area as he

807
00:30:34,389 --> 00:30:32,399
has done many times before

808
00:30:35,750 --> 00:30:34,399
what's fascinating about this account is

809
00:30:38,230 --> 00:30:35,760
what happened to those nuclear

810
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:38,240
physicists afterwards

811
00:30:43,590 --> 00:30:40,559
now because these are nuclear physicists

812
00:30:45,430 --> 00:30:43,600
working in secure locations involving

813
00:30:47,510 --> 00:30:45,440
nuclear material and nuclear weapons

814
00:30:49,590 --> 00:30:47,520
often these people are watched quite

815
00:30:52,070 --> 00:30:49,600
closely because it is assumed that

816
00:30:54,149 --> 00:30:52,080
foreign adversaries may try to intercept

817
00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:54,159
these people to bring them into their

818
00:30:57,990 --> 00:30:55,760
programs because of their knowledge

819
00:31:00,149 --> 00:30:58,000
around nuclear weapons and such

820
00:31:03,750 --> 00:31:00,159
so these people these physicists are

821
00:31:05,750 --> 00:31:03,760
always asked to declare any strange

822
00:31:07,509 --> 00:31:05,760
events that have happened to them since

823
00:31:09,029 --> 00:31:07,519
they were last at work so basically

824
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:09,039
every time they check in for work they

825
00:31:12,789 --> 00:31:10,880
have to give an account for anything

826
00:31:14,389 --> 00:31:12,799
strange that has occurred

827
00:31:16,149 --> 00:31:14,399
so what ended up happening to these

828
00:31:18,470 --> 00:31:16,159
nuclear physicists who just happened to

829
00:31:19,990 --> 00:31:18,480
be witnesses for uri geller's psi

830
00:31:22,310 --> 00:31:20,000
capacities

831
00:31:24,630 --> 00:31:22,320
well they seem to take home what's

832
00:31:27,029 --> 00:31:24,640
called hitchhiker phenomena in other

833
00:31:29,110 --> 00:31:27,039
words in their homes later that night

834
00:31:32,310 --> 00:31:29,120
and on into the week they would

835
00:31:34,549 --> 00:31:32,320
experience bizarre anomalous phenomena

836
00:31:37,350 --> 00:31:34,559
for instance a couple of these different

837
00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:37,360
physicists saw orbs floating in their

838
00:31:42,230 --> 00:31:39,440
hallway we've of course come across as

839
00:31:44,950 --> 00:31:42,240
many times after people experience ufos

840
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:44,960
or alien contact in this case it was

841
00:31:49,830 --> 00:31:47,600
just scientists who happened to observe

842
00:31:52,710 --> 00:31:49,840
sign capacity demonstrated by a human

843
00:31:54,549 --> 00:31:52,720
being specifically uri geller

844
00:31:58,070 --> 00:31:54,559
another nuclear physicist recounted

845
00:32:00,630 --> 00:31:58,080
seeing a giant black raven manifest

846
00:32:03,990 --> 00:32:00,640
inside his bedroom at night

847
00:32:07,269 --> 00:32:04,000
even stranger still his wife also saw it

848
00:32:09,190 --> 00:32:07,279
a very large black raven perched at the

849
00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:09,200
end of their bed there was no open

850
00:32:12,950 --> 00:32:11,760
windows or open doors and both of them

851
00:32:16,230 --> 00:32:12,960
saw it

852
00:32:18,310 --> 00:32:16,240
in another case a severed limb an arm

853
00:32:21,029 --> 00:32:18,320
seemed to be floating in midair and

854
00:32:23,909 --> 00:32:21,039
rotating this was observed as well

855
00:32:26,389 --> 00:32:23,919
out of the blue these bizarre phenomena

856
00:32:29,029 --> 00:32:26,399
manifested either in the consciousness

857
00:32:31,269 --> 00:32:29,039
or in the consensus reality of these

858
00:32:33,509 --> 00:32:31,279
people and again on several occasions

859
00:32:35,269 --> 00:32:33,519
there was more than one witness to this

860
00:32:37,269 --> 00:32:35,279
this of course is called hitchhiker

861
00:32:39,909 --> 00:32:37,279
phenomena and we're very familiar with

862
00:32:41,269 --> 00:32:39,919
it in places like skinwalker ranch we

863
00:32:43,269 --> 00:32:41,279
talked about this when we discussed the

864
00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:43,279
skinwalkers at the pentagon book over

865
00:32:48,470 --> 00:32:46,480
two episodes not all that long ago

866
00:32:50,470 --> 00:32:48,480
but what i find particularly fascinating

867
00:32:53,029 --> 00:32:50,480
about this particular case and why it

868
00:32:56,470 --> 00:32:53,039
makes my jaw drop is there were no

869
00:32:59,909 --> 00:32:56,480
sasquatches involved there were no ufos

870
00:33:03,190 --> 00:32:59,919
no aliens involved no shadow people

871
00:33:04,310 --> 00:33:03,200
no reptilians no grey aliens

872
00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:04,320
none of it

873
00:33:09,509 --> 00:33:07,200
all that happened was a human being uri

874
00:33:12,710 --> 00:33:09,519
geller specifically was demonstrating

875
00:33:14,870 --> 00:33:12,720
psi capacity and this seemed to bring

876
00:33:17,269 --> 00:33:14,880
about a circumstance where hitchhiker

877
00:33:19,990 --> 00:33:17,279
phenomena attached to these nuclear

878
00:33:22,149 --> 00:33:20,000
physicists who were innocent bystanders

879
00:33:24,389 --> 00:33:22,159
basically they had no interest in these

880
00:33:26,070 --> 00:33:24,399
kind of anomalous activities they

881
00:33:28,470 --> 00:33:26,080
probably were the very reductionistic

882
00:33:30,549 --> 00:33:28,480
scientists we talked about not long ago

883
00:33:32,149 --> 00:33:30,559
and yet this still happened to them just

884
00:33:34,630 --> 00:33:32,159
because they were witnesses to what

885
00:33:36,630 --> 00:33:34,640
happened with uri geller

886
00:33:38,389 --> 00:33:36,640
now this is so fascinating how can we

887
00:33:40,549 --> 00:33:38,399
describe what's happening

888
00:33:42,870 --> 00:33:40,559
what is the cause and effect equation in

889
00:33:43,909 --> 00:33:42,880
a situation such as this

890
00:33:45,909 --> 00:33:43,919
there are a couple different

891
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:45,919
possibilities that occurred to me

892
00:33:50,549 --> 00:33:48,240
on the one hand it could be that when

893
00:33:53,590 --> 00:33:50,559
someone like erie geller demonstrates

894
00:33:56,149 --> 00:33:53,600
this side capacity it somehow tears the

895
00:33:58,630 --> 00:33:56,159
space-time continuum and that this

896
00:34:01,029 --> 00:33:58,640
creates basically a wormhole or tear in

897
00:34:03,830 --> 00:34:01,039
the space-time fabric which just like at

898
00:34:05,990 --> 00:34:03,840
skinwalker ranch creates the possibility

899
00:34:08,710 --> 00:34:06,000
of a portal opening up through which

900
00:34:10,629 --> 00:34:08,720
then these other phenomena can manifest

901
00:34:12,069 --> 00:34:10,639
that could be what's going on here and

902
00:34:14,470 --> 00:34:12,079
of course that raises all sorts of

903
00:34:16,389 --> 00:34:14,480
interesting implications in terms of

904
00:34:19,109 --> 00:34:16,399
what's actually happening when human

905
00:34:20,790 --> 00:34:19,119
beings demonstrate side capacity

906
00:34:23,030 --> 00:34:20,800
another possibility that someone pointed

907
00:34:24,790 --> 00:34:23,040
out to me that's also intriguing is that

908
00:34:27,030 --> 00:34:24,800
perhaps this creates a kind of

909
00:34:29,829 --> 00:34:27,040
earthquake or perhaps we would call it a

910
00:34:32,470 --> 00:34:29,839
psyquake that reverberates in such a way

911
00:34:34,869 --> 00:34:32,480
that these entities perhaps even in

912
00:34:37,030 --> 00:34:34,879
different dimensions can pick up on it

913
00:34:39,669 --> 00:34:37,040
and they somehow attach to it

914
00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:39,679
either like a virus or with conscious

915
00:34:44,149 --> 00:34:41,919
intention it could work either way

916
00:34:45,589 --> 00:34:44,159
but as a result people who just happen

917
00:34:48,230 --> 00:34:45,599
to be in the vicinity end up

918
00:34:51,190 --> 00:34:48,240
experiencing these hitchhiker phenomena

919
00:34:54,310 --> 00:34:51,200
these anomalous events as a result

920
00:34:55,589 --> 00:34:54,320
truly is mind-bending and fascinating to

921
00:34:57,910 --> 00:34:55,599
the extreme

922
00:35:00,550 --> 00:34:57,920
the bottom line is when we consider

923
00:35:02,470 --> 00:35:00,560
these kinds of events that happen across

924
00:35:04,230 --> 00:35:02,480
time and across cultures to various

925
00:35:07,190 --> 00:35:04,240
people including those who have no

926
00:35:10,069 --> 00:35:07,200
belief no pre-existing conception of

927
00:35:13,190 --> 00:35:10,079
such events we're left to conclude that

928
00:35:15,750 --> 00:35:13,200
we are entering unchartered waters

929
00:35:18,390 --> 00:35:15,760
to quote from the original matrix film

930
00:35:20,710 --> 00:35:18,400
buckle your seat dorothy because kansas

931
00:35:22,950 --> 00:35:20,720
is going bye-bye

932
00:35:24,630 --> 00:35:22,960
and on that note we've come to the close

933
00:35:26,950 --> 00:35:24,640
of another edition of the point of

934
00:35:29,190 --> 00:35:26,960
convergence podcast if you'd like to

935
00:35:31,990 --> 00:35:29,200
support this podcast you can do so by

936
00:35:34,150 --> 00:35:32,000
going to patreon.com

937
00:35:36,069 --> 00:35:34,160
exo academian

938
00:35:37,829 --> 00:35:36,079
but until next time friends from deep

939
00:35:41,030 --> 00:35:37,839
within the blue ridge mountains of north

940
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:41,040
carolina this is exo academian signing

941
00:35:48,870 --> 00:35:42,490
out